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Getting flies down to 2-6ft below the surface

 
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TroutStalker
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2007 6:26 pm    Post subject: Getting flies down to 2-6ft below the surface Reply with quote

What line and fly combination would you recommend for me to go 2-6ft subsurface for fishing for trout between now and March.
The venue is a small stillwater (fed by chalk stream) with gin clear water and deep channels.
A 15-20ft cast will get me exactly where I want to position the fly

I could see a great number of rainbows cruising at these depths today, not rising to take dry flies and not at all spooked by the floating line above their heads. These fish get missiles lobbed at them all the time and are used to it.

I tried using a diawl bach fished New Zealand style beneath a dry, which got a few follows, but I only used 2ft of leader and think I needed to go 1-2 ft deeper

Would a sink-tip work or would I need an intermediate, or should I have gone for a sinking line.

How long should I leave to sink before stripping and at what speed?
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Chris
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2007 6:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A washing line would be superb.

Either intermediate or sinking line with a Booby on the point and nymphs on the droppers should put your flies n the right depth Smile
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Steeldrifter

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2007 8:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would suggest a sink tip line that sinks about 5-7" per second like a T200 or there abouts, then you can just count down as far as you want it to sink.

Steve
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Charlie
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2007 8:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You want an intermediate with a booby on the point, 15 ft leader and a couple of nymphs. Try different sinking times and fast/slow retrieves.

Charlie
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Bazza
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2007 8:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Troutstalker

You do not say what type of fly you wish to use, but presume it is a nymph of some type.

Am also once again bemused by a reference to a New Zealand style set up, for as a Kiwi
( seem to remember you may be also ) we are not aware of any such style.

Never mind I digress, but would suggest you try a simple setup we find useful down here for
deep nymphing.

That is, try tying a tungsten bead nymph, preferably using a flourocarbon leader as f/c
sinks faster than nylon & is invisible underwater. This first nymph should be sparsely dressed
to allow it to sink asap.

From the curve of this hook tie a short length of f/c (preferably a bit lighter than the leader)
to an unweighted nymph, usually smaller than the first, this should trail 12'' to 15" behind.
I would strongly suggest you use a hare & copper pattern for both, as they represent a multitude
of naturals, or a pheasant tail combo could be another worthy option. The weighted nymph
should bounce along near or on the bottom, with the trailing nymph slightly above, moving
in a more natural drift.

You can choose to use a small yarn indicator if you wish, set approx twice the depth of water being
fished or x 3 if shallower. However you state you can see the fish, therefore if they can be clearly
sighted may be preferable to dispense with an indicator & rely on visual reaction, as to when to strike.
This can often be a sideways movement, with a white flash from the fishes mouth, as it takes the nymph.

For this reason the trailing nymph is the one taken 80% of the time. with the weighted fly possiblly
having initiated interest. The biggest problem if trying to fish 2 to 6 ft of water will be judging the
weight required for varying depth. If the regulations allow, using split shot added for the deeper
runs may be an option worth considering. If not & you do not want to be constantly changing, then
maybe try for a weight barely sufficient for the deeper runs. In the deeper runs also cast further
upsteam to allow ample time to sink & try to keep enough "loose" line so as not to impede sinking.

Cheers

P.S. stick with your floating line for this setup.
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TroutStalker
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2007 9:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks all for the responses so far - a few variations for me to try on my next outing.

Bazza, you are correct. I was bemused by the NZ style reference when I first heard it mentioned, but is essentially adding the dropper to the curve of the hook as we are used to in NZ. It's funny how certain names stick.
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ChrisNicholls
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 11, 2007 12:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

How about something with a bead head?
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Bazza
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 11, 2007 5:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

TroutStalker wrote:
Thanks all for the responses so far - a few variations for me to try on my next outing.

Bazza, you are correct. I was bemused by the NZ style reference when I first heard it mentioned, but is essentially adding the dropper to the curve of the hook as we are used to in NZ. It's funny how certain names stick.


Hi T/S

I would venture to say, one of you main problems with the setup that you describe using, is that a nymph trailed under a floating dry, by 2ft of nylon would only be 1ft. max. below the surface. Probably less as the nymph would need to be light in order to prevent the dry fly being dragged under. Mind you there is nothing wrong with that setup & it can be deadly if fish are feeding on rising nymphs. However more often than not, they are feeding nearer the bottom & it has been repeated observed that whilst fish are prepared to move considerable distance sideways to intercept submerged food, they mostly seem reluctant
to rise significantly above the level they are holding to do so. After all why should they expend extra energy doing so, for a solitary nymph, if an abundance of them are drifting down at a level closer to the bottom?

Unfortunately extending the trailing nylon/flouro beyond 3ft. utilising a floting dry, makes casting for most of us difficult at best & accuracy almost unachievable.

I would be very pleased if you would try the setup previously described & let me know the results. Keep in mind such a setup is most effective on fish feeding near the bottom, in the less likely event they are taking subsurface, midwater or nearer then your original setup (i.e. below a dry) would probably be more effective.

Whatever setup you chose, the main essence to success, just as it is with dry fly is in achieving a natural drift.

Tight lines B.
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Pinky
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2007 12:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As Bazza says, the flow of water will mean that the leader will always hang off at an angle. To get your flies down deeper you need a longer leader and additional weight.

Flurocarbon should help get flies down as well.

Pinky
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barbus
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2007 11:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I use the NZ style with around 9ft in the water with some 6-8ft of leader to the flyline, no probs Very Happy you could just grease the leader upto 2-4ft of the fly or flies this will slow even stop the fly from going down to deep, best used with a lightly weighted fly , i use unweighted montys they sink very slowly and can be held up by greasing. For underwater work use a good floro Embarassed on top mono Very Happy
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2007 10:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is always worth a go in winter... if fish are used to 'missiles lobbed at them' try a floating line with an 18ft flourocarbon leader with an unweighted size 14 black McKay 9ft from the fly line and the same in a size 12 on the point. Small drab hare's ears are also worth a go. Cast it out and give it a couple of pulls so you are in contact with it then just count it down and figure of eight it back ultra slow or even better let it swing round in the wind. I would also try a singe fly if they are at all spooked by 2 or if fishery rules only allow 1 fly. The flourocarbon is all you need to get the fly down and just watch the fly line for the slightest movement or lack of it.

Mike
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trout
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2007 4:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd go for...


washing line on an intermediate, let it sunk a bit and draw it back with a slow figure of 8.

bung and red buzzer! like a bloodworm

or a floater with a heavy bug, like a dragon fly nymph on the point and a few smaller flies for dropers.
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