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Welded loops on floating lines

 
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 07, 2020 5:21 pm    Post subject: Welded loops on floating lines Reply with quote

Having bought and fished with my first floating fly line incorporating a welded loop this season I wondered what everyone thinks of them? Personally I am not impressed. I find the loop rather cumbersome compared to my usual whipped loop and the fly line coating has just cracked behind the weld again after I repaired it after only two outings. Mad

I can see the advantage of welded loops on sinking lines that have a mono core but with with floating lines, stripping away the fly line coating and forming a small neat whip finished loop is a better option to me.

Any thoughts?

Alan
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 07, 2020 6:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm with you Al - Roman Moser loop whipped on with some tying silk rather than using the plastic sleeve. Welded loops ok on salmon lines where you have a much thicker tip.
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 07, 2020 9:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Roman Moser braided loops (Salmon grade) are fitted to all my Piking fly lines Alan - and never had a tad of trouble. Having said that, for my own peace of mind, I replace them yearly (in winter).

Worth remembering that floating lines with a braided core need sealing at the wet end to stop water ingress due to capillary action Wink

Tony Cool
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 08, 2020 6:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm not a fan of welded loops on fly lines and always replace them with Roman Moser loops. The welded loop always strikes me as being bulky and clumsy.
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 08, 2020 7:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am still a fan of braided loops, which I make myself so I know they are reliable.
Lately I have been experimenting by welding them into the fly line with a heat gun which means I can do away with silicone tubes. It also means the line does not eventually crack down to the core after prolonged use.
Don't tell anyone but I have also made braided loops incorporating a small swivel into it for my DI8 Shock it seems to work to reduce tangles on back drifting.
P
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 08, 2020 12:23 pm    Post subject: Loops Reply with quote

With you on the micro swivels Peter.Welded loops do not seem to bother me too much.Majority of my floating lines have a furled leader attached in mono or braided format.No loop then usually whipped moser minicon.
or castwell knot if attaching a permanent furled leader.Has never failed me and has had some serious tugging Laughing Have to say Alan would look to send line back if kept cracking behind the loop.I did find when attaching nylon leader direct to a welded loop a decent diameter ''permanent''butt section cured any hinging/whip type effect tied direct with a clinch JH style to be slickest and effective.Do think welded loop profiles have improved to suit the lines more in recent years.I have also in recent seasons used some looped connectors from Alaskan guide Ard Stetts. Ard makes them up in various diameters to be fit for purpose and they truly are.http://akflyfishingguide.com/feed/

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 08, 2020 1:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

lakefisher wrote:
Worth remembering that floating lines with a braided core need sealing at the wet end to stop water ingress due to capillary action Wink


Being watertight was the only advantage I could think of for having a welded loop and that's why I decided to give it a chance. However when the line cracked not once but twice directly behind the weld that did away with its only advantage for me. The only other possible advantage could be convenience for customers who can't /don't want to sort out their own loops. I must confess that having a loop to attach your line to the backing is certainly less fuss! Laughing

The connection I use on my floating lines was passed on to me by Mark S for fishing dries if my memory serves me correctly. I use it on all my trout floating lines now as I have yet to see anything as neat and unobtrusive but ensuring the core is watertight to prevent capillary action is important as you say Tony, in order to prevent your floater becoming a midge tip. Laughing

For sinking lines I make up my own braided loops from 30lb braided mono and whip them on to my fly line. Never had a problem with them.

Swivel on fast sinking lines for backdrifting ... now that sounds like a good idea! Very Happy

Alan
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 08, 2020 4:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here's a novel approach which I have used in the past. It stops that gluppy noise when recasting although get minimal disturbance with RM minicons.

http://www.flyfishingknots.co.uk
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 09, 2020 10:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've tried various ways of trying to keep the tip of a floating line up on top. A dab of superglue on the cut end; I sealed it by melting the plastic coating and then squeezing it closed. The end result? The line still sits just subsurface so I just gave up and accepted it. I was told many years ago that the main reason is that because the core is the same thickness throughout which is logical enough it means that there is a lot less of the floating plastic coating at the thin end than there is further back in the taper. Logical again. So, as there is less of what it makes it float should we be too surprised when it sinks slightly?

Out of all the floating lines, good or bad, expensive or cheap, that I've owned and used over many years, I do not recall one that floated its full length right down to the tip, all day, every day, unless it is coated in liberal lashings of Mucilin or similar and even then the bu*ger would eventually dip under.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 09, 2020 12:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wylye wrote:
Out of all the floating lines, good or bad, expensive or cheap, that I've owned and used over many years, I do not recall one that floated its full length right down to the tip, all day, every day, unless it is coated in liberal lashings of Mucilin or similar and even then the bu*ger would eventually dip under.


Very true Wylye, and that's definitely the case if you use a fluoro leader as the weight of the leader and flies will eventually drag it under. In my recent experience welded loops do not prevent this, unfortunately. Smile

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 09, 2020 3:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Alan,

I'm afraid I do not subscribe to the theory that fluorocarbon will drag flylines down. I don't know what diameter the tip of an average floating line is, but the leader is going to be about 0.20 - 0.25mm at most and is probably about 1/20th of the diameter of the flyline. It just doesn't stack up to me.

I used fluoro for many years and had very few problems with it. I found the knots were no more or less liable to breakage than any other leader material I used. I actually think that people blame the leader material for knots breaking instead of their own rubbish knot tying. It was no more prone to rapid sinking than many other brands. In fact sometimes the stuff was frustrating in that it wouldn't sink! It certainly didn't drag dries down to a watery grave the instant it touched the water which is what was frequently alleged by the opponents of the stuff.

On the whole I got on well with it and would probably still be using it had I not found Gigafish Ultra which gives me the same fine diameters for a high breaking strain at around 1/3rd of the cost. Means I don't wince quite as much when I trash a whole leader at the end of a day!
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 09, 2020 5:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wylye wrote:
Alan,

I'm afraid I do not subscribe to the theory that fluorocarbon will drag flylines down. !


I included the weight of the flies as well in my previous post Wylye, although we agree on Gigafish Ultra. My 'go to' dry fly leader material. Smile

Alan
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 10, 2020 7:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So, here's an interesting experiment for some of our scientific members. Take a coil of 18' of .20mm fluoro and a coil of 18' of .20mm mono plus two sets of three identical flies and then weigh each group. That should clear up the theory that fluoro is so heavy that it will drag a floating fly line under.

I just love that idea that you can't use fluoro for fishing dries because it sinks and will drag the flies under, but you must degrease the normal mono leader to make it sink so the fish don't see it. When we fish dries on the reservoirs how long do we leave them out there? The perceived wisdom is no more than 10 seconds I believe. Is fluoro THAT heavy that it will drag the flies under in 10 seconds? I've left them out there for a minute and the damned things are still stubbornly floating.
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 10, 2020 8:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I invariably use Fluro for dry fly work from a drifting boat without any problems. What I do do is try to take the shine out of the fluro with fullers earth or similar. In fact I have some very fine wet and dry which is perfect.
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