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Utterly shocking!

 
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Lighthouse
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 07, 2018 9:33 am    Post subject: Utterly shocking! Reply with quote

From the BBC, Welsh rivers have recorded some 3000 pollution incidents in the past three years yet there have only been 38, yes 38, resulting prosecutions!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-42460121

Clearly, the lack of 'will' to prosecute is a worry and a further worry is whether the motivation to prosecute will be improved post our EU exit and we no longer have to demonstrate that we conform to the EU Environmental standard. I fear that, on the basis of how EA funding has been cut in recent years, we already know the answer.
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VGB

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 07, 2018 10:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree that pollution prevention and deterrence is shit but the Brexit linkage is tenuous to say the least. Wellow Brook has had 2 slurry spills from the same farm for which they have given a volountary contribution to a local conservation group. What does that tell you about the state of legislation and enforcement today, regardless of Brexit?
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Lighthouse
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 07, 2018 12:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It tells me that regardless of Brexit we are paying lip service to legislation that is in place. When we move to 'self determination' in such matters I fear that there exists little 'determination' or priority for improvement.

There is little or no deterrent in 'voluntary contribution' as evidenced by the fact that the same farm, in the Wellow Brook example, has made two of them.
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Lighthouse
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 07, 2018 12:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It tells me that regardless of Brexit we are paying lip service to legislation that is in place. When we move to 'self determination' in such matters I fear that there exists little 'determination' or priority for improvement.

There is little or no deterrent in 'voluntary contribution' as evidenced by the fact that the same farm, in the Wellow Brook example, has made two of them.
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VGB

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 07, 2018 5:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Itís not just here. Take a look at the history of the Doubs, the penalties are derisive and industry only pays lip service to the environmental legislation.
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 07, 2018 9:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The trouble is that apart from a few visible dead fish, the damage done by pollution is largely invisible because it happens under water and out of sight. Just imagine the public outrage if there were thousands of birds dropping out of the sky due to pollution? Mad

VGB wrote:
Wellow Brook has had 2 slurry spills from the same farm for which they have given a volountary contribution to a local conservation group.

Vince
You might be interested in this previous discussion on here about Wellow Brook covering the 2013 and 2017 incidents .. http://www.completefisher.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=20370&highlight=wellow+brook

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VGB

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 07, 2018 9:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Alan, the EA asked us to continue fishing it after the 2013 incident to gauge the loss of fish. I did a few times but it was pretty awful. We were lucky that there was heavy rain soon after the incident that probably moved a lot of the slurry into the main Avon and diluted it. Nevertheless, every so often you would stand in some silt that had a lot of slurry content and it stank. It was probably about 3 years before it was worth fishing again and there were some reasonable fish caught last year. There was no reduction in our rents and the syndicate members continued paying to keep up above water. BART have done some excellent work with the voluntary contribution.

http://www.bristolavonriverstrust.org/a-month-on-the-wellow-brook/
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springwell
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 08, 2018 12:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's an absolute disgrace.

We've had at least four incidence in my area in the last year or so, farmers and big name companies responsible.

I live within walking distance of the upper reaches of a small game river .

A few years ago a pollution incident was reported in the river which killed off a lot of juvenile trout, bullheads, millers thumbs etc.

I chased up the EA to see what was going on and was anyone to be prosecuted.

Their reply was no prosecutions would be carried out or the case followed up because only small fish had died!

They need a biology lesson, where do they think fish and breeding stock come from.
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 09, 2018 6:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Obviously being in the EU has not worked and the legislation isnt worth the paper its written on.
Once we leave maybe then we can put in some serious legislation that really hits the culprits and forces the authorities to actually sue.
Just saying everything does not have to be worse once we leave the EU (If we actually ever will)
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VGB

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 7:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bloody disgusting:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-42952504
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wylye
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 06, 2018 8:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

VGB wrote:
I agree that pollution prevention and deterrence is shit but the Brexit linkage is tenuous to say the least. Wellow Brook has had 2 slurry spills from the same farm for which they have given a volountary contribution to a local conservation group. What does that tell you about the state of legislation and enforcement today, regardless of Brexit?


As long as the contribution is commensurate with the damage caused, and as long as the conservation organisation actually uses that money to do the necessary rehabilitation work on the river, this is not a bad idea at all. The EA has very limited funds these days and prosecutions are very expensive. The EA do not get the fines from a case, that goes to the Treasury. The EA gets the costs, if awarded, and those are rarely sufficient to cover the prosecution, and nothing is awarded against the polluter for rehabilitation.

The contribution is a good way forward as long as the above criteria are overseen.
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VGB

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 06, 2018 8:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The idea is sound but how do you judge how much compensation is commensurate? As I mentioned, the syndicate still had to pay full rent despite the loss of several years of fishing.
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wylye
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 06, 2018 10:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The EA can tell you what they consider the cost of fish to be. It is all on their Common Incident Classification System. Brown trout @ 5-10cm, 10-15cm, 15-20 cm and so on. count the bodies.Get them to tell you what SHOULD be there based on their survey programme as they should have surveyed the river at some time in the last few years on your stretch but they will know more or less what should have been there.

They should have carried out a post-pollution survey as well to see what remains. Expecting an angling club to do so by rod & line is meaningless.

Fish are remarkably robust and there are nearly always survivors. We had a pesticide incident on the Kennet a few years ago which hammered the inverts on about 10 miles of the upper river. Every one is wailing and gnashing their teeth and saying it will take a generation for the river to recover. Well I suppose it did, only it was a generation of inverts, and not of humans. Less that ten days after the event I stopped off a bridge about three miles downstream of the source of the pollution and fish were rising.

Even after a massive algal pollution in the Kennet & Avon canal and River Dun that also wiped out a 150 tonne trout farm there were still survivors. I've seen a heck of a lot of pollution events, and it has always surprised me how many fish survive it. Any little field drain letting a trickle of fresh water into the river will be enough to save a few fish.
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VGB

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2018 8:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I donít know how the calculations were done but from your explanation it seems likely that the cost to the syndicate wasnít accounted for. The EA did electro fish a short stretch but my recollection is that they didnít consider that the data would provide much information on the impact on the stream. We didnít lose all the fish but our returns suggest that we lost the larger fish, there wasnít much spread in size in the following year.
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